hello Eagles
I am a keen hiker and I also have 45 years (ouch - currently 53 years old) of skiing - some off piste. I am new to Eagle Ski Club. I have completed a week off piste skiing course with the Ski Club of Great Britain some years ago.
Whilst hiking in the Alps and Corsica in the last few years I have met more and more people who have given up traditional downhill skiing and prefer to get away from the crowds by skinning up and skiing down. Mostly I guess on day trips.
What I want to do is to extend my Summer Alpine trips into winter: I want to walk/skin up, travel from one mountain hut or village to another, and complete a multi-day journey. I don't feel a need to climb to the peak : the col will do fine for me. I am not keen on using ice axes and ropes. I have some caving experience and can abseil if needed - but prefer to avoid that as well.
I have seen the Relaxed Silvretta trip under the Tours section of the web site and will probably sign up for that. I am thinking of going to the AGM in Argentiere to see if I can find like-minded souls: my downhill skiing friends think I am nuts.
It would be great if you coudl give me some advice on how I can get more into this. I have some specific questions:
- Are there some - perhaps less popular, and lower in altitude, regions of the Alps where one can walk village to village or hut to hut?
- How might I get more experience in this area without spending a lot on guides?
- Are there much lower altitude regions in the Alps where a couple of experienced skiers, but inexperienced ski tourers can go and just crack on? Marked routes?
- As a lone guy are there places you can go to in the Alps where you can team up with other skiers with similar ambitions?
Any advice welcome. Thanks in advance
John Dobson
Anonymous (not verified)
Hi John,
It sounds like you should look into ski rando/back country skiing course in the southern french Alps, "Les Écrins" where mountains are high but access to them much easier than in mentioned Chamonix or Vanoise for instance. We´ve got a good collection of accessable "nearly-3500-meter-peaks" around us but at the same time more gentle passes and innumerous well marked trails and gentle off/pist
We´re in Freissinières, which is a plateau just at the gate of the national park, there are lots of routes for both classic ski backcountry /tour skiing. Depending on what descents you want to do this is a perfect base for doing both. We organise courses holidays with small groups exploring the area with local, english-speaking guides and instructors from the Les 5 Saisons which is the ideal base for day tours or multi day tours mountain chalet/refuge with or without a guide. also there are two local ski resorts close by if you need some piste warm up on or even a mixed tour and piste holiday.
If you could organise a group of 4+ we can arrange a course here or you could subsribe to one of our courses/holidays as long as you have good general fitness and are able to ski red piste. We also accomadate self organised weeks and can give you any advise on conditions or trails and have very good contacts for gear hire and have a small store of equipment.
Finaly we advise you not to go alone, any slight accident or gear failure could grow into a life threatening situation. If you can get a bunch of club members or mates together we´re more than willing to help in any way we can.
Best regards,
Mark
StephenGoulden
You have come to the right place and will doubtless get many helpful responses - The Eagles is full of skiers who have made the transition you wish to make.
I came into skiing from mountain walking and rock-climbing, starting wit Nordic touring and progressing to Alpine Touring. Off-piste, for me, is just a way of making sure my legs still do what they should. On station training courses, run every year by the Eagles, have been a great way to teach me what my legs should be doing; touring places extra demands on skiing than simple off-piste, as snow conditions and escape routes from difficult situations have to be constantly in mind. Now, at 79, I am still touring although not leading Eagles tours as I have for the last 15 years. Take this into account when you read what follows.
Start by going on one of the Eagles “Introduction” weeks; they are on the programme for people like you. Don’t imagine that because you are a serious mountain walker you can just put on skis and follow the same routes as you would in summer; you can’t. Snow demands an understanding which takes years to assimilate. Even guides get caught in avalanches. Reading the terrain and choosing a route appropriate for the conditions is a skill which takes years to accumulate and skiing alone is an activity left for those with the necessary knowledge or for the most unchallenging terrain.
Having said that, there are areas in the Alps where you might ski with a minimum of risk if you avoid steep snow slopes and take local advice before leaving the valley. The Queyras, just south of Briancon against the Italian border is one such area. There, where there are moderately sized mountains up to just over 3000m, you can find gentle days on shallow slopes where the avalanche risk is minimal and the crowds are non-existant; there will be others about but not too many, which is a good thing if things go nasty. However, the temptation to visit the beautiful high peaks must be resisted in all but the most secure conditions because it is an area of massive snowfall and people die there in avalanches almost every year.
All the valley bottoms are tracked for Nordic skiing, which is a pleasure of its own with a demanding technique if the best is to be achieved; 30 - 40 kms a day is quite normal for a good Nordic track skier, and the social ambiance much more congenial than that of the ski-station pistes.
Nordic skiing in the Queyras is made for skiing from village to village; there are hundreds of kilometres of linked ski tracks. However, they take a dim view of the wider Alpine skis in these tracks and you should make use of the associated skating tracks which run alongside the Nordic ‘Rails” to avoid upsetting the men with the tracking machines. Or you could rent some Nordic skies locally and try it - a totally different way of enjoying the mountains in winter. Many Nordic skiers ski alone with no real risk to life and limb.
I have skied the Queyras for the last 35 years and still visit most years. It has its own unique ambience and the locals are a delight to know; I have many friends there who welcome me back each visit. There are many gites in the villages catering to all mountain users and 3 mountain refuges which are easily and safely accessible from road heads.
Avoid the Big Alps for skiing alone. They are too steep and conditions can change too quickly for safe escape. Others responding to your e-mail will suggest other areas but I cannot think of any that I know which offer the range of options available in the Queyras.
Good luck…..
….Steve Goulden
JohnDobson
Hi Stephen
thanks for your very nice and informative email. I suspect we have time so I will ramble a little:
When I think about about hut to hut trekking in the mountains I think that there are several elements of it that I like: I love the energy of climbing and walking. I like to be outdoors. I like the adventure a longer linear walk rather than circular walks which daily return to the point of departure. I like meeting new people. I like shared meals and beers with sporting companions in gites and refuges. There is something about just being in the mountains that does it for me.
Having read your post I am a little suspicious that I may be on the wrong path with Ski Touring and Nordic could be what I am looking for. I have very limited experience of Nordic skiing in Finland on the lakes and in the forests there. This was ok but it missed some elements of what I am looking for: it tended to be a bit flat, no views, little downhill reward and the tracks returned to the point of departure. Also I found Nordic skiing a little like running in terms of the energy required: you might do it for an hour or two but it required so much energy that it was not really an all day activity. (Nordic skiing also seems to use a really weird set of muscles in the legs that will need some training for, but I can cope with that.)
I have looked at Nordic skiing in the Queryas. I can find a number of centres that have quite nice areas for day skiing. but I can not find any information that shows how one village links to another with Gites for accommodation. I really like that idea. I really also like the idea of minimal kit, minimal navigation issues, minimal safety issues. I am excited by this prospect. So if I can prey on your goodwill a little more could you give me some more information:
With regards to the other parts of your email: I hear you. I need to ease myself gently into this new world and will start with a week or two with Eagles before considering how I proceed, or if ski touring is really what I want.
Kind regards, and thanks again for your help
John Dobson
StephenGoulden
Responding first to the detail of your first para, I always say that there are 3 kinds of mountaineers (regardless of what kind of mountaineer) There are those who are peak baggers, keeping lists of what they have done and how high they have climbed under how difficult the conditions were, there are those who are adrenaline junkies, looking for thrills - (they often kill themselves!) - and there are those who just love being active in the mountains: it is the 'being there' which satisfies them. I am one of the last, and I am still active, alive and happy at 79 and hope to continue for many years to come. You sound as if you are like me. Welcome!
The Queyras has developed as a walking and ski-touring area over the last 30 years. The first gite to sponsor Nordic touring was Gaudissard at Molines in the St Veran valley; at that time it was run by a retired pastor who loved the mounatins. It is still run by his family; one grandson is a guide, and his wife a Nordic ski instructor, and the other grandson manages the gite/hotel. I have used the gite facilities many times, as an individual and with groups of Eagles and groups from other sources. It has become extremely popular and early booking has become essential. They run instruction courses at all levels, individually or in groups and for both Alpine and Nordic. They have rental equipment for all they do. The ski station of Molines/St Veran is within walking distance but they have a fleet of minibuses which they use to explore the whole of the Queyras. For someone trying to find a way into skitouring, be it Nordic or Alpine, I can't think of no better place to start.
That may sound like a sales pitch but I get nothing from them!
If you look at http://static.sitra-tourisme.com/filestore/objets-touristiques/plans/74/200/903242.pdf you should find a relief map of the nordic tracks of the Molines/St Verans valley. The track number 11 connects this valley to the Upper Guil/Abries valley, which has another set of tracks, of a totally different nature. The two high level mountain huts are shown. The Ceillac valley, to the south, is not accessible on Nordic ski; even on Alpine skis, it is taxing. The valley of Arvieux, on the other side of the Guil below Molines, IS accessible on Nordic skis but it involves a serious climb to Souliers. Many circular days are possible in both valleys and skiing between them, in each direction, provides quite a challenge.
There are lots of gites in the various valleys.
Feel free to telephone me - 01981580397. If you are close enough to South Herefordshire, perhaps you would like to visit and talk in more detail.
JohnDobson
Thanks Stephen. That looks perfect. I think my wife and I will take a trip to Gaudissard for a week and see how we get on. I will call you in the next couple of days just to say 'hello'.
John
AndrewKydd
Hi. Have you thought about Nordic touring in Scandinavia as an alternative? This uses more robust skis than the regular skinnies (with edges I think, not unlike telemark skis) to travel hut-to-hut through varied terrain, not just flat forest tracks. I believe routes are usually marked (but not prepared like langlauf tracks). There are a few people in this club who practise this variant and would know more about it than I do. I just thought I'd throw the idea into the ring.
Best wishes,
Andrew
PeterLongden
John, A lot of questions there but welcome to the Eagles I have been a member for 20+ yrs, and like you I was a skiier with little or no climbing skills. Sounds like you may not want to try this but I do suggest you go for one of the introduction weeks, there you will cover the range of awareness and some of the skills you will be looking to develope. If you want to email me on longdenjp@btopenworld.com I'll be happy to continue this discussion. Pete Longden
JohnDobson
Andrew: thanks for this comment. Another Eagle member suggested the Norwegian DNT club. They run some nice training weeks which are not too expensive and i can see myself having a go at this in the future. I think i will go to the the Alps to try this in January.
Peter: yes: thus seems like a must for ski touring and i hope to get on a couple of easy tours next year. It seems like i need to try Nordic and ski touring to find out which one is most appealing for me.
Thans both of you for your help
John
JohnDobson
hi
I just want to complete this thread for any other newcomers who want to get into ski touring that they may see how I have managed so far.
I started by following Stephen Goulden's excellent advice and visiting Maison Gaudissard in January. This was very good. They run Ski Randonee day tours across the Queryas at reasonable rates. Around 900m of daily ascent and varying descents lead by one of the owners – David – who is a mountain guide. David is firm, and free with advice in the nicest possible way. The off piste through the woods is fantastic and challenging. This is a great place to start if you are a good skier. You do not need any mountaineering skills. You do not need to be that fit. They assume you understand transceiver operation. You need to speak some French. I also did a week of Ski de Fond with David’s wife Sophie. Very good. I can not recommend this highly enough. This is a very good place to start your ski touring career.
In January I also went to the Eagle Ski Club Argentiere meet for three days. The weather was a bit crappy so perhaps the opportunities for tours were not great. This was fun. But I did not learn so much and there is an assumed level of skill. I do not feel that this is currently a good starting point for newbies.
In February I did the Eagles Relaxed Silvretta tour with Andy Perkins. This had the potential to be really good, but we had too much snow and did not do the entire planned route. All the same we did 3 good days of touring with around 900m of ascent/descent each day. You need to be a reasonable off piste skier for this. You do not need much in the way of mountaineering skills, you need reasonable levels of fitness. I learned a huge amount about avalanche risk here: we saw a huge avalanche coming down on a French party and were airlifted off the mountain as the risk of continuing was too high. This was a marvellous introduction to the joys of hut to hut touring and Andy and his colleague Julie-Ann are really generous with advice and help. This is a good place to start your touring career if you have a few touring days under your belt.
So far I have done around 10 days of touring. I feel for a first season that this is not too bad. I am aware that my knowledge of how to be in the backcountry is still dangerously small. I have made some mistakes: in particular thinking like an on piste skier when off piste. I have a list of skills that I need to acquire for next year.
It strikes me that the difficulty for newcomers is that there is no one good route to get into ski touring: where you start depends on what skills you have. I have really, really enjoyed the company of the other Eagles that I have met who have made me feel very welcome and it feels like a great club to be a member of. Thanks.